Curse

Oromis Dead Hand · Nov 27, 2010, 05:12 PM // 17:12

hey all,
I recently unlocked livia and have been working on a build for her. Due to lack of experience with necromancers I do not feel extremely confident in my build making ability, So i turn to you for help. Ever since i started playing i always wanted a good MM build but im not exactally sure what the best skills to use are. I only have prophecies, eotn, and factions btw. Here is Liva's current build:

Animate Flesh Golem (elite)
Animate Bone Feind
Animate Bone Horror
Veratas Sacrifice (or blood of the master?)
Deathly Swarm
Rotting Flesh
Heal Area
Rez

Ok, i have been told blood of the master is to health costly so i should run veratas sacrifice, opinions?

Again i have been told heal area does holy damge to minions and can make them die even faster, opinions?

And last, what can i do to improve this build, like i said im inexperienced with necros, let alone MM's.

Thank You

FoxBat · Nov 27, 2010, 05:25 PM // 17:25

this is a pretty good overview on the core of a minion bomber and variants. Albeit I personally prefer the unlisted but common paragon command variant (fall back + whatever) to help the MMs not fall behind your party so badly.

Calista Blackblood · Nov 27, 2010, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oromis Dead Hand

hey all,
I recently unlocked livia and have been working on a build for her. Due to lack of experience with necromancers I do not feel extremely confident in my build making ability, So i turn to you for help. Ever since i started playing i always wanted a good MM build but im not exactally sure what the best skills to use are. I only have prophecies, eotn, and factions btw. Here is Liva's current build:

Aura of the lich(elite)
Animate Bone horror
Animate vampiric horror
Blood of the master
Signet of lost souls

Might not be the best suggestion but anyhow, the rest of the slots are optionals.

Quote:

Ok, i have been told blood of the master is to health costly so i should run veratas sacrifice, opinions?

Verata's gives regen at the cost of 17% sacrifice, BOTM gives health at 5% sacrifice. Whoever told you this should probably not give anyone advice ever again.

Quote:

Again i have been told heal area does holy damge to minions and can make them die even faster, opinions?

Your wise informant is terrible at being wise.

Quote:

And last, what can i do to improve this build, like i said im inexperienced with necros, let alone MM's.

Stop listening to the people in alliance chats and pay attention to how this thread progresses.

Xiaquin · Nov 27, 2010, 06:40 PM // 18:40

I definitely recommend Masochism (Skill Trainer, Eye of the North) and Aura of the Lich (Hell's Precipice) for starter minion masters. With AoTL, you can choose one or two other animate minion skills (I like Bone and Vampiric Horror).

Signet of Lost souls is in Nightfall, sad to see you are missing that, as it's a good skill.

For healing, Blood of the Master is the way to go. I wouldn't use Heal Area (or similar skills) since they will heal foes as well. Depending on where you are, you might have enough corpses to not need to heal them, just keep raising more to replace ones that die. Hope this helps.

Hal · Nov 27, 2010, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

Might not be the best suggestion but anyhow, the rest of the slots are optionals.

Verata's gives regen at the cost of 17% sacrifice, BOTM gives health at 5% sacrifice. Whoever told you this should probably not give anyone advice ever again.

Your wise informant is terrible at being wise.

Stop listening to the people in alliance chats and pay attention to how this thread progresses.

Actually, Blood of the Master does require an additional 2% health sacrifice per minion healed in this way. BOTM also heals EVERY allied minion. Therefore, there are instances that BOTM can result in greater Health loss than Verata's Sacrifice.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blood_of_the_Master

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Verata%27s_Sacrifice

I do, however, agree with your statement of the wise informant.

To the Original Poster:
I have not had any problems using Heal Area back in the day. As a matter of fact, the Myth that Monk healing spells/skills cause damage to minions has been around since the first minion was raised.
I have been using Paragon secondary and 'Fall back'. I find it useful when going from one battle to the next. It is often easier to raise new minions than to keep the old ones alive. (I realize that "fall back" is not an option for you since you do not have Nightfall. Just letting you know.)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Minion http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Minion_master

Please take a look at those pages for a bit. There are some other ideas that are floating around.

That is my $0.10.

Star_Jewel · Nov 27, 2010, 07:12 PM // 19:12

In my opinion, a MM without Death Nova is a waste. Also, if you don't want to go /Mo on your MM, somebody should have it for Dwayna's Sorrow. That combination is quite potent.

End · Nov 27, 2010, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Ok my *cough*humble*cough* advice...

A MM really dosen't need a full necro bar to be effective and necros are one of those professions that can actually play other professions well to...

I tend to either drop prots or the usual fall back combo on my minnion master. For reference since I haven't seen them mentioned people from what I have seen tend to bring aegis and Protective spirit.

I am also a big fan of the Masochism and Aura of the Lich combo (some baws minnions when youn have both on a MM with a sup death on their headpeice)

A MM build without death nova is loosing a good bit of it's potential even if you are healing minnions..death nova is just a great skill...

A second minnion along with Aura is also needed. If your bombing go with bone minnions. If your actually looking to hold onto your minnions use something heartier.

Blood of the master is probably the best way to heal minnions if you choose to do so.

umm yeah so take all that and put it into readable and understandable form and you have my advice.

Calista Blackblood · Nov 27, 2010, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal

Actually, Blood of the Master does require an additional 2% health sacrifice per minion healed in this way. BOTM also heals EVERY allied minion. Therefore, there are instances that BOTM can result in greater Health loss than Verata's Sacrifice.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blood_of_the_Master

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Verata%27s_Sacrifice

My post was hurried so excuse the minor detail :P

It's irrelevant if you run vamps to offset the sacrifice. Also,the entire idea of an MM is maintain your cap of minions, verata's is not capable of allowing it because of recharge stipulation on minion count. The straight heal from BOTM is always going to be better,regardless of +2% per minion

Chthon · Nov 27, 2010, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

this is a pretty good overview on the core of a minion bomber and variants. Albeit I personally prefer the unlisted but common paragon command variant (fall back + whatever) to help the MMs not fall behind your party so badly.

For once, PvX gets something close to right.

Also, heroes are for minion bomber builds, not minion master builds. The AI handles one rather well and the other very poorly.

Xiaquin · Nov 27, 2010, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star_Jewel

In my opinion, a MM without Death Nova is a waste. Also, if you don't want to go /Mo on your MM, somebody should have it for Dwayna's Sorrow. That combination is quite potent.

The problem I have with Death Nova on a hero is that they go crazy with it, causing one to fall behind or neglect other skills. This is especially distressing when you see minions fall over with no adjacent enemies.

Minions are also meat shields for your party, which greatly relieves the back line. Dropping Death Nova can free up a hero so it can spend more time using other skills and raising new minions. I had run DN for a while but it does slow a hero down.

_Nihilist_ · Nov 28, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Xiaquin, not using Death Nova results in a massive loss of damage. If your MM is falling behind disable it in between engagements, that should keep your MM and Minion Wall moving.

Xiaquin · Nov 28, 2010, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Nihilist, that's a pain in the rear. Would you want to do that between every battle?

I don't see it as a loss of damage, nothing is stapled to the bar. Sure, it works, but it's not necessary, that's my two quid.

Klance · Nov 28, 2010, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Its not even microing...turn nova off when not fighting, turn it on before fighting.

At 16 DM, and assuming two minions die per battle, that's a loss of 210 aoe armor ignoring damage (as well as incidental poison degen).

Its not necessary per se but then you simply relegate your MM to being a meat wall, and one which arguably is inferior to a spirit spammer.

Xiaquin · Nov 28, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klance

Its not even microing...turn nova off when not fighting, turn it on before fighting.

At 16 DM, and assuming two minions die per battle, that's a loss of 210 aoe armor ignoring damage (as well as incidental poison degen).

Its not necessary per se but then you simply relegate your MM to being a meat wall, and one which arguably is inferior to a spirit spammer.

It is micromanaging if you have to keep the panel open and flip a switch on and off every battle, and let's not get into debates over theoretical damage output, when you need neither of the above to do well in PvE.

Klance · Nov 29, 2010, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Hitting ONE button ONCE before and ONCE after battle hardly counts as micromanagement especially considering you hit your skills on your own skill bar more than once per battle.

Of course its not needed, for that matter with optimal hero builds you can run an empty skillbar yourself and simply wand creeps...but that's besides the point.

We're not arguing about the necessity of the skill, we're simply pointing out that the ONE slot for death nova contributes alot to the build of a minion BOMBER, and that no other skills can compare to the value of the one skill. So while it is not strictly NECCESSARY, the build loses alot of its value if you don't bring it (to such an extent that arguably another hero should be run instead).

Xiaquin · Nov 29, 2010, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Okay...I'm not getting into a dictionary war. Or a war about what is "needed". Or any kind of war..

It has some management drawbacks, and isn't 100% efficient, but all of that is beside that point that it's just an opinion, not gospel. I really worry when people defend a skill like its their first-born child.

End · Nov 29, 2010, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Okay...I'm not getting into a dictionary war. Or a war about what is "needed". Or any kind of war..

It has some management drawbacks, and isn't 100% efficient, but all of that is beside that point that it's just an opinion, not gospel. I really worry when people defend a skill like its their first-born child.

I...am...death novas father...me and icy veins got together and well things happened...9 months later death nova was born and I just kinda ran off doing my adventuring things. But...these days I always bring my son with me. While I don't need to...I love my son...he has wonderful damage output...and while yeah he can be over zealous and in between battles I gotta kinda settle him down...it's a small downside to being allowed to take my first born son with me along with his great power into battle.

Xiaquin · Nov 29, 2010, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

I...am...death novas father...me and icy veins got together and well things happened...9 months later death nova was born and I just kinda ran off doing my adventuring things. But...these days I always bring my son with me. While I don't need to...I love my son...he has wonderful damage output...and while yeah he can be over zealous and in between battles I gotta kinda settle him down...it's a small downside to being allowed to take my first born son with me along with his great power into battle.

Hello, Mr. Nova. Well, little Deathy is a bright boy, but, well, it's just that he's..a bit of a distraction to the other children, constantly yelling "Professor Olias!" Who, of course, cannot help but call on him at every spare moment. I'm afraid it would be downright cruel to gag him between every lesson, and see that he find a different school where he will fit in better. We ask that you call off your lawyers and we'll forget this whole mess.

RunningInTheMist · Dec 07, 2010, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Just thought I would drop my two cents into this thread as I've always enjoyed my Necromancer heroes and like to think that my setups do a good job.

First off, I'd like to point out that Death Nova does cause your Necromancer hero to lag behind a bit. Personally, I've found if you give them an offensive spell to use on the enemy it seems to help keep them up front a bit more. Secondly, I'd like to point out that heroes tend to run a "Minion Master" build quite poorly and I would recommend running a "Minion Bomber" hero. In other words, try to focus on making more minions to explode rather than trying super hard to keep your minions alive. If there aren't enough corpses in the area to create a steady supply of minions, you may want to consider a different hero for the trip.

Another thing that I don't see mentioned aside from the link to PvX wiki is a Ritualist secondary. I've generally found that heroes tend to manage Ancestor's Rage and Splinter Weapon fairly well. Both create a good amount of damage when combined with minions. Blood Ritual is also a nice touch if you have a skill slot to spare. I also recommend Dwayna's Sorrow as was mentioned already. It creates a fairly consistent and cheap party heal. Foul Feast + Infuse Condition + Smite Condition has always been an amusing way to go for me as well (although it's probably not the most ideal line up, it's just funny). Skills like Dark Bond, Blood Bond, Mark of Pain, and Barbs also have great synergy to a Minion Bomber bar.

Hopefully this helps. Best of luck with your Livia.

dagrdagaz · Dec 07, 2010, 09:16 PM // 21:16

If yer MM or MB Hero falls behind, u can also Flag the Hero to u.

And.
I attempted some mix between Hero MM/MB, wich for NM seems (very) satisfactory sofar.
And yes, i am sure to accept a Hero MM/MB mix will not suffice for HM.